ZJ
60
hmmm
Jan 26, 2017,07:43 AM
Have seen some service horror stories lately, not to mention ridiculous wait time. Hard to know who to "entrust" your PP with these days.
Comments:
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Patek Denying Warranty? (and answer in the end)
By: enjoythemusic : January 23rd, 2017-14:20
It appears NYC Patek is denying warranty to owners of timepieces if they are not the original owner. Thus if you buy a Patek from an AD and then sell it, there is now zero warranty. The basic two year warranty does not transfer in the USA. Am curious why ...
I'm surprised about that
By: Mark in Paris : January 23rd, 2017-14:32
I would be very surprised that a watch looses its 2-year warranty if the owner changes (except if there is a special law in the US but I would then have thought it applied to any other brands as well). Can you please communicate your official source? Than...
Hi Mark
By: willski : January 23rd, 2017-14:39
I can\'t remember the official rules of this forum posting materials from/referencing other forums but there\'s a pretty substantive thread on the The Rolex Forums. A member there emailed Pat at HSWA and reported he was given the below response: "FYI... P...
Thanks Mark.
By: willski : January 23rd, 2017-14:54
Clarity on this issue from your sources would be much appreciated.
I had a look at my Warranty Certificate
By: Mark in Paris : January 23rd, 2017-15:09
Before I might get additional infos, I had a look at the terms in English of my certificate as some people said they could look ambiguous. The papers also provide a French version of the text. It says the watch is under the 2-year warranty if the certific...
I do not know if this is true
By: Mostel : January 23rd, 2017-15:13
but if it is... it would be another easy path to resenting Patek.... I HOPE it's not true because Patek is too easy to resent and dislike, and needs no help hurting itself in the Thierry era... I find it hard to believe actually only because Thierry is 'a...
Allow me to digress a little :-)
By: sham1 : January 24th, 2017-01:33
but I noticed you mentioned that Thierry is 'against the wall' these days. Please excuse my ignorance but is Patek not doing well or simply not as good as it used to do?!
Hi Sham
By: Mostel : January 24th, 2017-11:41
I refer to the recent interview with Thierry where he threw cold water on Tag Heuer, referring to a watch they created as 'a joke'. The watch was not Swiss enough for him, and the price reflected this absurdity. I was only referring to the fact that Thier...
I saw some interviews last year
By: Mark in Paris : January 24th, 2017-13:02
with TS and it seemed to me that it was more about the Swiss and price bases that allow high end brands to sell at these prices. The issue arouse especially when Tag was considering launching a Tourbillon at a very low price. Thierre Stern said that there...
Thak you Mark
By: Mostel : January 24th, 2017-14:38
I hope you and everyone can see in my post that I ask us all what we know about this. I think it was certainly provocative that Thierry called a TH watch 'a joke.' I admit I find it all gossipy and intriguing. So I ask all of us what we think, feel, and m...
Thanks!
By: sham1 : January 25th, 2017-05:39
Tag Heuer I do not believe is a competitor as far as Patek is concerned and Patek would be more worried about what Vacheron did for example. I would like to think that Thierry was more concerned about the Swiss watch industry as a whole when making those ...
Maybe its just the HSWA?
By: benzng : January 23rd, 2017-16:34
I think this should be cleared if its just the policy in the USA or PP in General worldwide? If it is, they should clearly state when this started as most of us assume that the warranty is transeferable Benz
This is sounding like "fake news" to me.
By: sam1234 : January 23rd, 2017-17:09
It makes no sense, and as others have mentioned, it does not appear to be part of the requirement as set forth by Patek on their COO. If the watch is purchased from an AD, and the papers are properly completed, I have a hard time believing that Patek woul...
If you check the source...
By: willski : January 23rd, 2017-17:20
You will see that the reply was from HSWA on company letterhead. I also have a hard time believing this, and want to hear from other sources as well.
Not fake news.
By: Dancing Fire : January 23rd, 2017-22:56
My watch was purchased from an AD in March of 2015. The paper is stamped and dated by the AD, but HSWA say they will not honor the warranty b/c I am not the original owner.
I doubt that is the case in the US, not sure that is legal.
By: JerryW : January 23rd, 2017-17:13
I would be all over social medial if that was the case. They should follow the MB&F warranty policy where through the end of 2016 they offered a free two year warranty to the owners who registered their watch, that is true customer service in standing beh...
the easiest way is to write to pp geneva
By: gcTIME : January 23rd, 2017-18:16
to get an official clarification. this looks like some personal interpretation by an uninformed pp staff esp when it was mentioned that this policy is clearly stated on the certificate of origin which is clearly not the case and if so this would mean this...
That's my feeling too
By: Mark in Paris : January 24th, 2017-02:25
I think that there was a misunderstanding in the US and I don't believe this is true. But that's just my personal thoughts. I'll post an answer if I get one. Best, Mark
If this is true. Class-action-suit would be the only outcome.
By: jimjenkins : January 23rd, 2017-19:28
In my copy of an original certificate, it states: "The guarantee is valid only for timepieces accompanied by a signed, dated and stamped Certificate of Origin given to the purchaser by the Authorized Patek Philippe retailer from whom the watch was purchas...
As I wrote above
By: Mark in Paris : January 24th, 2017-02:27
this is how I understand the Certificate's text, in English but also in French (the latter is even clearer). I would be very surprised... Best, Mark
Am not shy...
By: enjoythemusic : January 24th, 2017-12:20
Just wasn't sure linking one web discussion from another board to here, yet yes it originated on The Rolex Forum's Patek section. Here's a link to that thread www.rolexforums.com
And we appreciate that.
By: Mark in Paris : January 24th, 2017-13:07
Especially as I always thought that before spreading on the net, it could be good to validate an info and that if someone has a problem localy he can also ask directly the brand's HQ, whatever the brand is. Then, depending on the answer, he can go tell th...
As someone with a grey market PP
By: Wristenthusiast : January 23rd, 2017-20:52
I have my doubts, but am testing this right now. I have a second hand Patek 5890 Blue dial. it just went out of warranty but i went to Shrieve & Co (Palo Alto California). they said they were requesting my repair be done under warranty (small booger o...
Grey or AD purchased?
By: russell996 : January 24th, 2017-00:34
But is yours a grey market watch (as you suggest in the title) or was it purchased new from an AD by the original owner - big difference?
i think this thread is resolved but..
By: Wristenthusiast : January 25th, 2017-19:46
Just to clarify. i may be using the word "grey" wrong. I am the second owner of my PP 5980. i bought it with all box and papers including Cert of origin with the original owners name and a signature from AD who sold it. All legit. I just noticed a cosmeti...
If you have
By: Speedie74 aka Mr. Torquise : January 23rd, 2017-21:11
the warranty in your hand, how can Patek decide, that you are the first owner of the watch or only a second-hand owner? As far as I know, the registration of the ownership is voluntary by Patek and it is not a condition for the warranty! Just my thoughts....
Ownership
By: Mark in Paris : January 24th, 2017-02:40
In fact Adam, the warranty certificate must show the name of the purchaser, the date, the stamp of the AD and signature. Hence, the name of the second owner doesn't show on the papers. Best, Mark
Perhaps some discretion will be applied..,
By: U3O8 : January 23rd, 2017-21:50
I can understand the predicament. If you buy a new Patek, you want the warranty to apply for the full two years from date of purchase from the AD. After all you are paying for it. And it adds to the value of the watch if you decide to sell it. And I under...
enjoythemusic is correct. He is referring to my watch.
By: Dancing Fire : January 23rd, 2017-22:39
My BIL took my PP 5396 to HSWA in NYC for service and he was told that the factory 2 yr. warranty is non transferable. My pre-owned watch still have about 2 months remaining on the factory warranty, but HSWA say they will not honor the remaining two month...
Ok, let's assume all this is true...
By: sam1234 : January 24th, 2017-03:11
And it's not just an isolated event that's now resulted in mass hysteria hyped by the Internet. Notwithstanding that it seems to be in violatation U.S. consumer law, how exactly does Patek enforce said policy? In other words, when presented with a valid C...
There would be multiple issues if true...
By: Mark in Paris : January 24th, 2017-07:37
but let's see before what Geneva's official position and discover what exactly happened there. Our discussion will then be more accurate imho. Mark
Well in my case..
By: Dancing Fire : January 24th, 2017-11:40
I wrote a note with my address and phone # stating the problem with the watch. My BIL told HSWA that I was not the original owner but he does have a copy of the CoO which show the watch was purchased on March 2015. stamped by an AD. Nowhere does it say on...
I didn't notice that either on the certificate.
By: Mark in Paris : January 24th, 2017-13:11
I think you should write to Geneva's HQ in order to have the final word. That's how I would do if I were you, living in the US, just to confirm that very strange answer from HSWA (especially since, it is not the case worldwide, first mistake, and that it ...
That is scary, or disappointing or both...
By: U3O8 : January 24th, 2017-06:28
For the example your provided. Several things come to mind. I live in NYC and have the flexibility to go to HSWA if I need a watch serviced. Many people don't live close by, don't have the time or flexibility and may rely on somebody taking the watch in f...
I completely agree, this is my feeling too.
By: Mark in Paris : January 24th, 2017-02:47
I think what you wrote is the spirit I understand and that's how things should be handled. We forget how good Patek handles situations for their customers. I see examples every year. This being said, there seems here to be another issue about the fact tha...
Questions for the Lawyers/Solicitors/Barristers/QCs out there...
By: U3O8 : January 24th, 2017-06:40
Since this is a Consumer Rights legal contract issue now... What if I purchase a couple of watches under my name. Then I realize I have eaten too much foie gras and drunk way too much champagne (on the fifth floor of the Geneva Salon) and my liver is fail...
Of course they are
By: watch-er : January 24th, 2017-08:06
as they should. The warranty is a personal contract between PP and the original owner. All contract warranties require privity of contract which means they are agreements between the actual parties to the contract here PP and the original owner. The confu...
That's an interesting view.
By: Mark in Paris : January 24th, 2017-09:18
And it could indeed be a possibility but I imagine it can be more a vision you can have in the US because in Europe (at least in France) it doesn't work that way. When you buy something under warranty the warranty is normally linked to the object and not ...
This does not apply to U.K.
By: Patekphilippecollector : January 24th, 2017-10:14
I have email confirmation that warrant follows watch not owner. I am awaiting confirmation from Geneva on Theo stance
I do not know if I missed the point....
By: watercolors : January 24th, 2017-12:22
but this looks like much ado about nothing. If I understood correctly there is only a " copy " of the original document not the original itself. Best Regards Edward
Yes, unfortunately the point has flown way over your head.
By: anonymous09 : January 24th, 2017-12:52
The person whose watch this thread concerns (also a member here) has been informed that, as he was not the original purchaser of the 5396R – dropped off at HSWA by his bother-in-law, with a datewheel problem (a known issue with the SC 324 movement) – the ...
way over my head....
By: watercolors : January 24th, 2017-13:04
they have been doing it for past ten years and the customers, whom are mostly above average people never corrected them? Really for ten years? That is not how it works my friend. Disclaimer , I am not a Judge. With respect Edward
Yes, I believe you are right....
By: watercolors : January 25th, 2017-00:15
Dancing Fire , You must show them the Original with your watch not the copy. The seller of the watch on warranty keeps the copy and new owner gets the Original. That's what I think. Than It would make sense for Patek Philippe to respect it. Best Edward
I CALLED PATEK....
By: enjoythemusic : January 24th, 2017-12:25
They ARE NOT honoring warranty for second owner. This is from Patek NYC H Stern. Time to sell guys.
Slow down Chicken Little
By: sam1234 : January 25th, 2017-03:14
I'm confident that Patek will properly address this issue and we can put all this nonsense finally to rest. If HSWA has gone rogue as the OP's experience would suggest, then I'm sure that Patek Geneva will et them straight. IMO Patek has some work to do t...
Let's just say I'm confident they'll do the right thing.
By: sam1234 : January 25th, 2017-04:23
Whatever benefit, real or imagined, from such a policy is most certainly false economy. Jubilation may not yet be in order, but neither the pessimism of ETM's "time to sell guys", wouldn't you agree?
Looking at the responses to my earlier post
By: watch-er : January 24th, 2017-15:42
it appears the Mag..-Moss Act in the US does require a Full Warranty to extend to subsequent purchasers during the warranty period, however, a Limited Warranty does not have to so extend. The question then is the PP a full or limited warranty?
Yes, Kari....
By: watercolors : January 25th, 2017-04:22
did they also tell you that you need original Certificate of origin not the copy, like you would need a warranty card with any other watch? Curious Best Edward
They did not.
By: dr.kol : January 25th, 2017-06:44
Luckily I have sent a watch just one time for small repairs during the warranty period and nothing was asked. Best, Kari
Confirmation from Geneva
By: Patekphilippecollector : January 25th, 2017-03:33
I received confirmation as well that the warranty follows the watch. However it does appear that HSWA has gone rogue which is strange as it\'s a subsidiary of Geneva.
just for clarification,
By: sam1234 : January 25th, 2017-04:29
if HSWA sends the watch to Geneva for repair (as I understand they do with complications above an AC) would the bill be generated from HSWA or from Patek Geneva? If it's the later, than any HSWA policy is moot. Regardless, it seems incredulous that Patek ...
Do we know that for fact?
By: Patekphilippecollector : January 25th, 2017-07:05
Whilst HSWA stated this policy has been in force for 10 years we have had enough anecdotal evidence from owners stating that their watches had been repaired under warranty. If this had been going on for 10 years why the sudden riotous indignation??? Would...
Maybe nad maybe not
By: Mark in Paris : January 25th, 2017-07:27
The problem is that, right now, I don't know and you don't know either. Just to say that we speculate a lot, this issue unveils many question but as long as we don't have the facts, we may drw wrong conclusions. What you presume in your last answer is yet...
========== AS A CONCLUSION ========== (Please Read) ==========
By: Mark in Paris : January 25th, 2017-07:54
Well everyone, This is indeed an important issue that was adressed for owners. That's a reason why we need always more facts to determine what's real and what isn't. We live in a world of social medias and "journalism" where rumors get more and more power...
I agree John
By: Mark in Paris : January 25th, 2017-08:22
That would be the next step we need. Since we don't have the info, then only the owners can send the demand to Patek Philippe and get an anwser. That's at least what I would do if I was in the US. Maybe Patek is working on it already? I don't know. Best, ...
Social Media
By: Patekphilippecollector : January 25th, 2017-08:44
I was discussing this thread on another forum with PP today. Whilst they monitor social media they are not in a position to participate in the forums. Thus invariably leads the poster to hold all the power as they cannot refute some of the statements. The...
Geneva
By: Patekphilippecollector : January 25th, 2017-08:47
The impression I got from Geneva is that it\'s PP policy to follow the watch! They were contacting HSWA today to clarify to them. So let\'s see
+1 [nt]
By: Mark in Paris : January 25th, 2017-09:25
This received from Patek Philippe SA, via e-mail.
By: anonymous09 : January 25th, 2017-10:20
[quote] Dear “PJ S”, Thank you for your mail Please be advised, the Product Warranty is covered , worldwide, for a period of 24 months from the dated of the purchase. A Certificate of Origin was issued for any watch. Among other information, it indicates ...
Thanks a lot for sharing your request to Patek Philippe SA
By: Mark in Paris : January 25th, 2017-13:53
I think that it is quite clear now. Now, owners who may hear otherwise should be able to ask their dealer/service center to contact Patek HQ or contact Patek directly. As I said, I was very surprised and I hope that from now on things will come in order. ...
Gray Market
By: watch-er : January 25th, 2017-07:58
There really is no gray market for PP watches as all the new watches are only sold by authorized agents with the original papers. When you buy an unworn watch at a huge discount from a non Patek retailor they either bought it from a retail purchaser or an...
Than you can safely assume .....
By: watercolors : January 25th, 2017-08:27
that these "Gray market" watches will be covered by third party warranty not Patek's . Cheers Edward
Maybe, maybe not.
By: TheMadDruid : January 25th, 2017-09:59
What I think watch-er is referring to is a "brokerage" system that has grown up around the Patek trade. Quite a few ADs have too many Pateks on hand and can't move them, so no turnover, no money and no new Pateks, or whatever else the dealer sells. Along ...
Makes sense.
By: watercolors : January 25th, 2017-11:03
....thank you Padj for this insight. I noticed one US dealer claiming to be a Patek online AD, but they offer only their own warranty. Maybe a loophole . Best Edward
If you get a watch
By: watch-er : January 25th, 2017-13:42
with your name on the papers, no problem with the warranty. But, we do see third party dealers offering their own warranties on new unworn watches. So they may believe the warranty does not follow the watch. I personally do not put much stack in a re-sell...
Thank you for explaining Watch-er....
By: watercolors : January 25th, 2017-13:59
no grey market, but maybe they put their own warranty on new Patek watches to avoid a fee from them for each watch sold? The chances of a warranty issue is so low that it would cost them more to commit to Pateks repair? After all they sell a brand new wat...
off topic but a related question...
By: sam1234 : January 25th, 2017-23:27
If HSWA sends their complicated watches requiring repair off to Geneva, then how do the grey markey vendors perform their warrantee services? Are there skilled independent service centers here in the States that have watchmakers capable of such repair? I ...
hmmm
By: ZJ : January 26th, 2017-07:43
Have seen some service horror stories lately, not to mention ridiculous wait time. Hard to know who to "entrust" your PP with these days.
+1 [nt]
By: Poky : January 26th, 2017-11:45
This is not a big deal
By: finetime : January 26th, 2017-08:57
Most people buy their Patek from a AD as they should. All this really hurts is the grey market dealer. I\'ve often said once a greymarket dealer gets a watch to resell it becomes a pre-owned watch. He should represent it as such and offer his own warranty...
Good news from HSWA
By: Dancing Fire : January 30th, 2017-18:46
I received an Email from HSWA today. HSWA say they will honor the warranty. Thanks to all the helpful members here especially PJS for contacting PP.
Good news
By: Mark in Paris : January 31st, 2017-14:12
I had update the conclusion a few days ago with my answer here: www.watchprosite.com Glad to see that things have come back in order Best, Mark
I spoke with HSWA this morning.
By: Dancing Fire : March 28th, 2017-17:33
HSWA said that they ended up doing a complete overhaul on the watch. The watch should be ready in about two weeks
FYI......
By: Baron - Mr Red : March 29th, 2017-01:45
this issue has been checked and confirmed. Patek honour the watch....... no matter who owns it, it is the watch that is honoured. So, no need to be critical of Patek after-sales at all. This was an issue that was misunderstood by some and has now been cla...