Dials & more … THE face of any watch

Sep 20, 2013,09:53 AM
 




 
“After observing many Pateks, XYs and a lot others, I believe that Patek makes the best numerals (both in style and quality) and hands. The rich selection of different hands and numeral styles in different materials is really a big asset for Patek. For me, a watch is not just a movement (although Patek does also some best movements), it's a highly integrated beauty with its case, dial and all the details on the dial. In this sense, Patek beats all other players, in my very own opinion.” (a fellow Purist)

 

“… These floating numerals.....they are sublime” (another fellow Purist)

 

Those quotes show me that I am not alone with my observations and I was more than keen on to get more input about that topic. I have visited quite a few watch manufactories, but how to make a dial I just saw at some independents – if at all. Finally I got a chance and would like to share my experience with you.

 

The complication (movement) gets most of the time our attention, when we discuss details. Of course we talk about the beauty of watches as well - the body and the face. But do we really look in detail so often? Or is it more about style … our (personal) life style …?


The dial is the face of the watch. It shows more than just the time. It displays its personality and not to forget the achieved precision, especially when we talk about chronographs. It must be nice, harmonious, readable, perfectly executed … it has to pay tribute to the movement beating within, to mention only a few of the challenges. That is why the role of the dial-maker is as important as that of the watchmaker, even when they don´t get the same attention. Both need a lot of attention for even the tiniest detail, the calm & knowledge to manage the challenges and both start their work with copper – at least most of the time.

Each stage in producing a dial is essential and not even the slightest imperfection may be tolerated. The dial-maker cuts out the round (or what else is needed) shape of the dial from a plate of gold or copper and that´s only the beginning …


Side note : Especially pieces from the 40s & 50s (Patek Philippe and Vacheron Constantin, to be fair) are known for their gorgeous dials. Still today most of them are real beauties and matured with grace. Is it still like this today? At least one thing is different. The dials of today are quite often an integrated part of the movement.

 

The Stern family started in the industry as dial makers, a long time ago, before they bought Patek Philippe. Maybe that´s why they are so keen on these details, even today. In 2004 they bought their main supplier (supplier for more than six decades) for dials - Cadrans Flückiger. “In-house” dials comes to my mind …


They started to build a new factory and moved in, in 2006.



The new place is outside St. Imier a lovely town in the Swiss Jura and well-known (at least in the past) for suppliers of the watch industry and of course Longines. It is about two hours from the PP headquarters in Plan-le-Ouates, Geneva.


A few quick impressions of the town, taken at a lovely sunny day:











More to see in the next parts …


This message has been edited by small-luxury-world on 2013-09-21 01:18:40 This message has been edited by small-luxury-world on 2013-10-17 01:46:01

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Part I - … the face of a watch

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 20th, 2013-10:01
How many different dials/faces do we have in the current collection? A brief overview : That´s still not all, but I decided to stop here - promised :-) I didn´t count them all, but the total amount seems to be impressive. Not to mention the different deta...  

Your post is a milestone...

 
 By: moc : September 28th, 2013-06:42
Wow,this is what Patek is all about,and these are posts that a non-patek fanatic like myself would like to read,in order to understand what is so special about the brand,apart from the value of its timepieces. I must admit that my mind is way more open no... 

Mo my friend, you are too kind and now we have ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 30th, 2013-00:16
several more "details" to discuss when we meet next time :-) Ciao, Oliver

Part II - Quiet & discrete, watchmakers are known for this

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 20th, 2013-10:38
“Dial makers” are not that different - if not even “worse”. Even long time insiders from the industry don´t know that much about their “secrets” - much less than about movements. It is probably not a big surprise that the atmosphere at Cadran Flückiger is...  

What a post!

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : September 20th, 2013-11:05
I started it two hours ago...and OK i was distracted by a glass of wine or two, but just finished. What a superb and through treatment of the subject. As you probably know, dials are central to me. In Rolex world, it works for me..... dial, history/case, ... 

Thanks Oliver for a great report !!

 
 By: GLau : September 20th, 2013-11:25
As your report has shown, the amount of work and efforts that go into the "face" of a watch are just amazing. So many steps and such attention to details. Since Cadrans supplies to others, by going through the factory, were you able to get a sense of whic... 

Gordon, thanks for your kind reply ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:36
and I can´t tell you anything about the other companies. PP tried very hard not to show me those :-) Oliver

Joe, thanks for your kind reply and I see ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:34
lots of topics for further discussions. Would love to learn from you and to discuss with you in detail. Just an example. Do Rolex dials have to "age in grace" to be adorable? How much time do they need to be addictive? The new ones are less beautiful or j... 

Vintage Rolex is ...

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : September 23rd, 2013-03:04
..... a long and winding road!! What some see as beautiful, others see as ugly. What some see as interesting, others see as a problem. Take spider dials..... they split vintage collectors in two. Yep...an issue to discuss over a bottle or so and a full ev... 

Nothing much to say about such a great report, Oliver, but I’m sure…

 
 By: marcelo : September 20th, 2013-12:04
…I’d have enjoyed a trip to Switzerland and a visit to Patek Phlippe better. ;) About the tiny details making a BIG difference for the connoisseur, I could not agree more. :) Best!

Marcello, to have more pleasure than I had?

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:37
Hard to believe :-) Thanks, for your kind reply! Oliver

No, Oliver.

 
 By: marcelo : September 23rd, 2013-07:15
Just what you had. ;) Best! Marcelo

My oh my!

 
 By: Ares501 - Mr Green : September 20th, 2013-13:00
What a post! One of best intros in report ..ever.. to just sit back and enjoy reading. You are true Purist and Connoisseur dear Oliver Indeed if movement is heart of watch dial is it's soul. What best movement perfectly executed and finished can do if dia... 

D, I just try to do it with passion ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:39
and by heart :-) Thanks, my friend! Oliver

A wonderful trip

 
 By: Spellbound : September 20th, 2013-16:18
Thanks Oliver for a great read, and more a journey into the world of dial making. You did actually take away some of the mysteries of dial making, and for that I am thankful. I would love to see a similar report from other manufactures to compare. A wonde... 

Dean, such kind of reports/visits I would love as well.

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:40
If only we could get an invitation, secrets you know :-) Thanks a lot, Dean! Oliver

You killed many of us...

 
 By: Fricks : September 20th, 2013-16:44
... i am sure with that thread :) And the final fatal blow to end with the 5550P... I took the process backwards, i saw myself selling all my watches to buy mainly Patek, wondering what they had so special, i went into the details... Discovering a whole n... 

Guilty!

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:42
"You killed many of us ..." With pleasure :-) Fricks, thanks! Oliver

Thank you Oliver

 
 By: Dje : September 21st, 2013-03:33
Thank you Oliver for this great report. I totally share your starting points about current trends in horology unfortunately. Dials are totally essential for the lasting pleasure of owning a fine watch. Dials are what we look at most of the time. The FHH s... 

"current trends"

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:45
Trends come and go, but we the customers have to support the good ones and to avoid the bad ones. No one would follow a bad trend if he can´t sell the product ... 5711, Jerome one is still waiting for you - no matter how long it will take :-) Thanks a lot... 

Fantastic read and pics.!

 
 By: fernando : September 22nd, 2013-02:00
I will never look at a dial the same way again! Thanks for sharing all this with us. :) Best fernando

"I will never look at a dial the same way again!"

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:47
Such a statement from someone experienced like you Fernando?! Thanks!! Best, Oliver

incredible

 
 By: Bruno.M1 : September 23rd, 2013-11:03
This year I visited Métalem, anonther dial maker, you have to see it to understand al the work they put in a dial Most of us keep talking about the movement but after my dial manufacture vists I can say making a perfect dial is art

Wonderful report!

 
 By: social : September 25th, 2013-01:37
Many talks are about caliber but only a few are about dials! Thank you!

Great post!

 
 By: patrick_y : September 25th, 2013-09:02
Fantastic post Oliver! Thank you for showing us the dial making experience!

Great work

 
 By: Mark in Paris : October 17th, 2013-08:35
Thanks a lot Oliver, I just noticed I missed to read this thread. It was very interesting. I noticed too that the moonphase dials looked so sad when they weren't yet finished: we never think of what they go through during the process! Poor little lonely d...  

"we never think of what they go through during the process!"

 
 By: small-luxury-world : October 21st, 2013-04:36
Mark, you made my day :-) Thanks! Oliver

A truly splendid report, Oliver!

 
 By: Gary G : October 29th, 2013-22:50
Great stuff indeed -- many thanks for sharing this visit that the rest of us will likely never enjoy! Wonderful details, great photos -- truly a classic post. Another example of why those "watch journalists" who lack passion for their subject matter will ... 

Indeed, passion is the key ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : October 30th, 2013-11:48
and the main difference. Thanks a lot Gary, much appreciated! Cordially, Oliver

Nothing I can say but wow, thank you. Fabulous post

 
 By: doubleup : September 20th, 2013-13:23
Those who ask why are these so expensive. Just look at this, just the dial production... I did not know they made their own numbers. Really want one one day.

doubleup, one day ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:52
you will get yours - for sure. Thanks, for your kind reply! Oliver

couldn't agree more...

 
 By: Fricks : September 20th, 2013-16:23
.... with that fellow purist. Thanks for the nice post. I agree, i think that the great dials is what dragged me to Patek. You know those dials that smiles back at you, that change mood according to the moment of the day, the light, the surrounding. Its n... 

"those dials that smiles back at you"

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:53
I like that idea :-) Oliver

Fantastic report!

 
 By: Dmitriy : September 21st, 2013-02:26

Thanks a lot, my dear friend!

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:55
Oliver

Amazing report !!!!

 
 By: Georg : September 21st, 2013-02:45
Thank you very much!!! Brilliant photos, too. Best regards Georg

Dial is what makes a watch.

 
 By: Iceman : September 21st, 2013-04:41
Ok, movement too :-))). But 90% of watch buyers are attracted by the face of a watch. Thats why Dials are so so important imho. Everytime i look at my 5070p blue dial and compare it to my " other brand" . I know for a fact that no one is even close to mas... 

Iceman, my pleasure ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:58
and I would not mind to look at the blue dial of your 5070P - for hours :-) Oliver

same feeling here about the 5070P...

 
 By: Fricks : September 24th, 2013-14:03
... 1st thing that comes to my mind, is that 5070P sends all the others watches home :)

Georg, thanks ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:57
and I guess we will meet soon ... Herzlichen Gruß, Oliver

Thank you Oliver,

 
 By: dr.kol : September 21st, 2013-07:26
For a lovely post. Kari

Kari, my pleasure!

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:59
Oliver

Fabulous report Oliver! [nt]

 
 By: AnthonyTsai : September 23rd, 2013-17:08

Anthony, thanks!

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 30th, 2013-00:16
.

Great report

 
 By: ED209 : September 30th, 2013-18:26
Excellent report Oliver, thanks sharing all the photos of the dial making process. Regards, ED-209

Ed, my pleasure.

 
 By: small-luxury-world : October 9th, 2013-10:18
Cheers, Oliver

The most fantasic post SLW

 
 By: -RWK- : August 18th, 2014-20:58
I really enjoyed this...Thanks for all your good work here! -- Richard.

Richard, thanks a lot ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : August 19th, 2014-07:22
for your kind reply! Oliver