m2
1241
When did Patek finish quality change? Moderator Edit: It hasn't changed.
Aug 27, 2023,05:17 AM
There are lots of posts here showing machining marks etc visible on Patek's anglage. Obviously producing at their scale and hiring the people needed is not viable.
But when did the brand loosen standards around finishing? If I pulled something from say the 90s or early 2000s, would finish quality be better?
Moderator Edit:
I'm sorry gentlemen, but a lot of you are chiming in with mostly assumptions (or inferred knowledge that is based off of logical conclusions made from incorrect data) and presumptions rather than cold hard knowledge here. And there is the Schadenfreude or the happiness in criticizing the best.
This statement is true: "There are lots of posts here showing machining marks etc visible on Patek's anglage." This is true. And yes, there are machining marks or "chatter" on this anglage.
This statement is not true: "Obviously producing at their scale and hiring the people needed is not viable." Uhh... This is a huge assumption to make, and M2, I have to point out, you're not coming from any factual publicly available data here. In the finance world, we'd say you're either spreading rumors or you have inside information (and the ones with inside information don't usually want to attract attention to themselves by spreading rumors). There is no real evidence that Patek Philippe has problems hiring people nor production at scale. Patek Philippe is a prestigious manufacturer to work for. Many watchmakers want to work for the top brands; Patek Philippe and Vacheron Constantin generally have a steady stream of applicants and can choose to hire the best workers available. Many of the top watchmakers at these top brands leave to start their own brands. Kind of like how Cisco Systems' top engineers left the company, and would spin out another company - like Meraki.
The fact of the matter is, that under moderate magnification, a Patek Philippe Geneva Seal watch from 30 years ago will show machining marks on Patek Philippe's anglage. And it will show similar machining marks even on watches in the 2020s. Thus, over the past 30 years, the anglage on Patek Philippe has not worsened significantly if at all, when it comes to machining marks.
Now, to be fair to our members, you guys are looking at half-truths and making very innocent mistakes. Here is the common thought process which is mostly based on assymmetric logic...
1. You realize these machining marks are visible on Patek Philippe watches under magnification.
2. After seeing these machining marks under magnification makes people wonder; "why am I noticing them now? As I didn't notice them in the past!"
3. You make an incorrect conclusion based off an assumption; as these two thoughts inevitably lead someone to make the incorrect conclusion that Patek Philippe quality has gotten worse over the years.
4. But there's a hole in your logic. But that's simply not true, a 1990s Patek Philippe will simply have similar machining marks. It's just you never noticed them nor had a perfect direct comparison. You didn't compare apples with apples. You didn't look at a photograph of the exact same model (one from 30 yeas ago and one from today) with the exact same camera equipment, at the same magnification level. And if you did, you'd notice there's no solid difference.
ALSO. There are a lot of comparisons between Patek Philippe's finishing and that of A. Lange & Sohne. And Lange's watches generally DO NOT have these machining marks on the anglage. The past two sentences when taken into a vacuum leads people to also make the unknowledgeable collector incorrectly conclude that Lange does a higher quality of anglage as it forgets one important piece of context. Lange's plate material is German Silver, a material that is much easier to polish. Patek Philippe's material is yellow brass, is harder to shape and polish than German Silver. Thus, due to this material difference, and the fact that German Silver can be polished to a higher degree much more easily (and it's not plated with the white rhodium), these two are not valid comparisons.
Patek Philippe quality overall can be argued has changed for the worse. BUT, it's definitely not for the reasons mentioned by any of the posters above nor below.
Photo by member W220. Notice there is a slight "chatter" in the bullnose anglage here. Some people are noticing this and because they're noticing it for the first time, and they never noticed it before, they presume that Patek Philippe quality has gotten worse. That's not the case. I would estimate this watch photo-ed is from 2005 or so +/- 4-5 years.
In 2008, it was announced that Patek Philippe was leaving the Geneva Seal certification and going to the Patek Philippe Seal and thus away from third party certification. Patek Philippe felt that other watches with the same seal implied that they were the same quality as Patek Philippe. But this is not entirely true neither, as some brands do the bare minimum to get the Geneva Seal when Patek Philippe goes to a higher level.
This message has been edited by patrick_y on 2023-08-27 16:15:15 This message has been edited by patrick_y on 2023-08-27 16:16:10