Do we need a Patek Philippe Calatrava for the young blood?

Sep 26, 2010,10:13 AM
 

May I begin this thread by letting all know not to worry?smile


I’m still wishing to order a Patek Philippe 5711/1A for myself and not looking for another option. By the way I can no longer qualify myself as “young blood” so the subject is not for my own use!


On the contrary I may more ask myself and yourself why I didn’t buy a Patek Philippe so far, as a Calatrava option is not unreachable as the stars of this forum can be. Don’t worry again  I’m just writing about star watches like the 5970, 5078 or any other top reference you may choose.


Indeed my most expensive watch is not far from the value of an entry-level Calatrava, and still I didn’t really feel the desire to get one.


Remembering that the 5711/1A is my kind of entry-level Patek Philippe can help understand my question. I’m not too fan of too formal watches, not that I don’t like them, but because I don’t have many opportunities to wear them (and I wear my watches). I’m tempted to think (am I right?) that in our modern world there are more and more people like me who could afford a Calatrava but who don’t wear a suit all week long. You may want to answer that a 5196R could do well with a jean trouser and a knitted sweater. Sure, but  wouldn’t it be still looking too classic?


In fact here is my question: do you think that the Patek Philippe range lacks a “younger”, less formal looking Calatrava?


A watch that could be as usable as an Aquanaut (i.e. waterproof, with luminous hands and dial indexes), as sexy as a 5960 (with a touch of sport chic through a daring dial), as voluptuous as a 5205 (with a rounded and sculpted case)!


A watch that could catch the young workers who don’t want to wear a sport watch but don’t want to look that If they had borrowed their father’s watch either!


If you look at the picture below you can see what is recognized as a classic Calatrava design (not the 96 style, another one).

Although quite nice I doubt it is ideal to seduce the men turning 20! Not that they can’t appreciate it, but I would understand if they preferred another style!


                                                            Patek Philippe simplest expression


Well we all know examples of modern designs from other brands that have appealed us, from the Richard Mille RM005 to the Vacheron Constantin Quai de l’Ile (in fact I don’t like this one, but others do).


We know that these designs have not stopped traditional brands from keeping traditional designs in their range.


What I imagine is a casual but elegant design, be it through the case, the dial and hands.


The new platinum 5140 and its blue dial is somewhat a tested way towards such watch, as the shade of blue chosen makes it quite appealing to youngsters IMO (like the 5070P, blue a winning colour for PP apparently). The brown dialed 5140R is very beautiful too, but possibly for another audience in terms of age, or am I wrong?


I’ve looked in Patek Philippe’s past for examples of younger designed (or seemingly so) Calatrava models, but I didn’t find one that would justify to be regarded as intended specifically for a younger audience.


So I’m wondering if I’m right to somehow ask for such watch?


What do you think? Does anybody feel the need for such a Calatrava? Should it be named Calatrava still?


What qualities a Patek Philippe simple watch for newcomers should bring to the market?


Or am I getting insane?  smile


Dje

 

 

 

This message has been edited by Dje on 2010-09-26 10:14:58 This message has been edited by Dje on 2010-09-29 21:50:20


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Interesting....

 
 By: MiniCooper : September 26th, 2010-12:55
I hope that this thread does not develop like mine did a couple of days ago..... I did a search and nothing too similar came up.... On a more serious note though.... I agree and disagree at the same time.... PP has an entry young level watch in my opinion... 

No

 
 By: Dje : September 28th, 2010-14:06
Hi, "I hope that this thread does not develop like mine did a couple of days ago....." Well, it did not, I wonder why? "I did a search and nothing too similar came up...." That may be why! "PP has an entry young level watch in my opinion... The Aquanaut..... 

Well.....

 
 By: MiniCooper : September 28th, 2010-14:33
Hi, "I wonder why?" Because Amaanico was rude, he did not "keep the tone of the posts courteous and respectful" Sorry that was easy. "that may be why" Per rules your forum "there are no dump questions". "sorry but it is a......I doubt" I disagree with you... 

"Monet" is the problem for the young ones ...

 
 By: COUNT DE MONET : September 26th, 2010-13:30
I would say to all the questions that you are asking : no . No, because it is not necessary as the fascination for a great watch and jewellery can start at a very young age. I know, and many also will do, a lot of friends who admired a 3119 when they just... 

Really?

 
 By: Dje : September 28th, 2010-14:17
"I would say to all the questions that you are asking : no ." You don't let me much chance! "No, because it is not necessary as the fascination for a great watch and jewellery can start at a very young age." I admit, but there's a difference between fasci... 

I sound very repetitive, I know but the Ellipse does the trick!

 
 By: COUNT DE MONET : September 28th, 2010-15:40
Have a look, again: ( with a lizard strap, on that day ) Cool, isn't it ? Honestly, I have never encountered anybody saying: " Booaah, what a hideous watch! " All of them are simply stunned by such a simple, bold beauty. It is not a Calatrava, but a simpl...  

Nice watch but....

 
 By: Dje : September 29th, 2010-13:00
Hi, Nice watch but..... the seventies are seen as young and cool by those who where young and cool in the seventies, no? Cheers Dje

Could not said it better

 
 By: shadowprince2000 : August 23rd, 2016-22:37
You just said it .The Ellipse is definitely one of Patek Philippe`s greatest models. Simple and Elegant.

WOW

 
 By: tenaille.developpement : August 30th, 2016-00:51
The Ellipse as a young man's watch??? Sorry but I couldn't disagree more. The 5167 yes as it was made for young people to start with, and the Nautilus IMO fits the bill, but the Ellipse really totally fails to convince me being a watch for young people. C... 

my personal oservation and belief about age is: we all do not grow older than mid twenty

 
 By: COUNT DE MONET : September 1st, 2016-09:45
And the reason is simple: our brain would go mad if all infos would be stored. Taste is what matters with watches, not age, imho. Best Moritz

Well said and completely agree.

 
 By: jimjenkins : September 2nd, 2016-17:56
Often people confuse fashion with age and taste. Just because something is in fashion, does not mean it is tasteful. We see this both in older and contemporary watches. Cheers. Jim

5960r

 
 By: Card1 : September 26th, 2010-14:01
I just recently purchased a 5960r . Wow! I am in love.

Congratulations!: nt

 
 By: Dje : September 28th, 2010-14:19
nt

Congratulations on your 5960R!

 
 By: patrick_y : September 28th, 2010-14:28
The 5960R is a great watch for both the young and the old. But to be young at heart is the most important.

Larger Calatrava?

 
 By: Park : September 26th, 2010-15:40
Dje, While I don't presume to know what Patek "needs" and am fuzzy on any true relationship that may exist between age and taste, I certainly agree with you that the Calatrava line lacks models that have the appeal of the 5960. The 6000 may come closest a... 

Larger Calatrava?

 
 By: ccoulon1 : September 26th, 2010-19:12
First - thank you Dje for the post - it at least call on us to put some thought into the question. As what I would presume as a younger member of this forum at 36 years young - I have often though about the subject you bring up. I am an avid collector and... 

Interesting aspects Chris

 
 By: Dje : September 28th, 2010-14:26
Hi, Interesting aspects Chris, but at 36 (I'm 37) you're already long out of my target group. "So yes I agree - and wish that there was a more options for a younger collector especially larger models- but also understand some other's points that a discern... 

Intersting

 
 By: Dje : September 28th, 2010-14:23
Hi, "While I don't presume to know what Patek "needs" and am fuzzy on any true relationship that may exist between age and taste, I certainly agree with you that the Calatrava line lacks models that have the appeal of the 5960. The 6000 may come closest a... 

What's wrong with the 6000G?

 
 By: patrick_y : September 26th, 2010-20:52
The 6000G is a Calatrava (Calatrava to me basically denotes a round faced/cased Patek Philippe, including the complicated round watches when using the word loosely). The 6000G is a sporty watch that has a sporty color scheme, a unique look on the dial, an... 

Nothing.

 
 By: Dje : September 28th, 2010-14:31
Hi, "The 6000G is a sporty watch that has a sporty color scheme..." I love it but don't see it as sporty. Less formal than the majority of Calatrava models, but not sporty yet. Anyway I'm not looking for a sports Calatrava. "For those young'uns looking fo... 

What do you propose?

 
 By: patrick_y : September 28th, 2010-14:45
Hmm, Dje, you've got me thinking here. What do you think you would propose to Patek Philippe if they wanted to make a watch for younger people? First of all, let's explore the facts. What brands do young people buy today? How do we define young people (un... 

Very valid points.....

 
 By: MiniCooper : September 29th, 2010-05:57
It seems to me, Dje, that you have something very particular in mind... at least judging from your responses thus far.... How would you design it? Cheers

Nothing, I just ask!

 
 By: Dje : September 29th, 2010-13:10
Hi, Thank you for pushing the discussion a bit further. I don't have a clear definition for young, and young at heart is certainly essential, but I see young people more aqt 20 than 30. "Panerai is definitely a watch that is appropriate for young people. ... 

hmm... ok...

 
 By: pastethis : July 24th, 2012-20:37
"Well young peole can have bad taste too!" People have bad tastes if they don't wear a PP on their wrist? You do know not everyone has10k for a watch even if they have good taste, right? and there are more factors in life than taste when a person drives a... 

young people can like the Calatrava

 
 By: jschen888 : September 26th, 2010-21:19
I'm 31, and I bought my first nice watch two months ago. I was looking for a dressy watch that would impress under any circumstances, yet be discrete enough for day to day wear. I ultimately picked a VC, but the PP Calatrava lineup was the other main choi... 

Sure but

 
 By: Dje : September 28th, 2010-14:34
Hi, "I'm 31,..." Yes, so you're no longer 20! "I ultimately picked a VC, but the PP Calatrava lineup was the other main choice at the end." Yes but you took the VC, not the PP. Why? "I find the hobnail pattern bezel common to many Calatravas to be too for... 

Re: Sure but

 
 By: jschen888 : September 28th, 2010-20:24
First of all, let me say that this is a fascinating thread! > Yes but you took the VC, not the PP. Why? A lot of factors coming together. I started out knowing nothing about fine watches other than that Rolex and Omega are popular, and that my uncle (a wa... 

Interesting

 
 By: Dje : September 29th, 2010-13:14
Hi, Thank you for sharing your experience. Regarding your last point, VC's produciton is far lower than PP's production, so the second hand market is very different for the two brands. That may explain things. Cheers Dje

Very interesting topic, Jerome.

 
 By: amanico : September 26th, 2010-22:57
There are watches for young people, in the PP family. Come to mind models like the Aquanaut, the Nautilus ( the Chrono being, in my opinion the one which looks the younger model ), the 5070 ( especially the P ), and even the 5140 P. About Calatravas, whic... 

...And White Metal is always cool ;-) [nt]

 
 By: =RWK= : September 27th, 2010-02:36
No message body

It depends, it depends ! A YG Ellipse is the coolest one in the PP collection, ...

 
 By: COUNT DE MONET : September 27th, 2010-03:23
... a watch that a secret agent of another kind would choose: Austin Danger Powers ! Regards Moritz...  

Nicolas!

 
 By: Dje : September 28th, 2010-14:38
Hi my friend, "There are watches for young people, in the PP family. Come to mind models like the Aquanaut, the Nautilus ( the Chrono being, in my opinion the one which looks the younger model ), the 5070 ( especially the P ), and even the 5140 P." I don'... 

No...

 
 By: Echi : September 27th, 2010-03:44
It's my first time to post in the PP forum although I've been lurking for quite sometime. It's a watch that I would get for when I hit 50. I think it is something that goes beyond age. I would almost say that one has to understand, appreciate, and deserve... 

Thank you

 
 By: Dje : September 28th, 2010-14:42
Hi, "It's my first time to post in the PP forum although I've been lurking for quite sometime. It's a watch that I would get for when I hit 50." That my point, defining a watch that would have brought you to Patek Philippe 20 or 30 years earlier! "I think... 

Hahaha!!! Hi Dje. Old is relative, yes?

 
 By: Echi : September 28th, 2010-23:57
Sometimes it doesn't quite correlate with age, fortunately, and moreso still, unfortunately, with the wallet!!! I did not like the Nautilus for quite sometime. I did not "understand" its design, it's proportions. But I saw an ad for it a couple of weeks a... 

Yes, and yes, someday! nt

 
 By: Dje : September 29th, 2010-13:15
nt

why????

 
 By: Hororgasm : September 27th, 2010-07:23
do we need a PP Calatrava for young people? the aqaunauts and several quartz models enough for them(thus betryaying my ancient age). generalizing here, younger people tend to have smaller budgets...for most. go buy another make with a more affordable pric... 

Sure! nt

 
 By: Dje : September 29th, 2010-13:15
nt

Its a difficult question...

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : September 27th, 2010-08:15
I am not sure that i agree with the idea that a Patek is only something that can be appreciated later in life...and after "REALLY" earning one. To my mind, we each remain teh arbiter of what we do or do not deserve. Is it right to stick a 5970P on the wri... 

Yes

 
 By: Dje : September 28th, 2010-14:50
Hi Baron, "I am not sure that i agree with the idea that a Patek is only something that can be appreciated later in life...and after "REALLY" earning one. To my mind, we each remain teh arbiter of what we do or do not deserve." I do agree. "Is it right to... 

Yes, I believe Patek does need to bring a substantial,

 
 By: whit : September 27th, 2010-09:22
steel-cased watch to the market. The introduction of the Aquanaut was targeted at that the younger market but seemingly lacked the robust features that the younger market wanted. The difficulty I see from Patek's perspective is the cost to develop such a ... 

I do think so....

 
 By: Dje : September 28th, 2010-14:54
Hi, "...a steel-cased watch to the market." Young people don't need gold yet, lucky they are. "The introduction of the Aquanaut was targeted at that the younger market but seemingly lacked the robust features that the younger market wanted." I don't know.... 

from business point of view...

 
 By: armyman : July 26th, 2011-10:38
PP is targeting the market of well-off people with high disposable income. Most of the people meeting this criteria are above 40 of age. No doubt that there are more filthy rich young men now, thank you to internet. However, the market is still too small.... 

My advice is to start with a 240 caliber.

 
 By: foversta : September 27th, 2010-12:45
A micro-rotor caliber is always special and when it is reliable and beautiful like the 240, I think it is the best way to enter Patek's world. Fr.Xavier

Does PP NEED a younger-clientele?

 
 By: watchme : September 27th, 2010-13:22
A question of youth-oriented would lead one to get something like AP or JLC. At least with JLC, you'll get a great movement with a robust case in a large case, and it can be had new for under 15k. With PP, the Jumbo Nautilus was a stab at that market, but... 

Let's say yes

 
 By: Dje : September 28th, 2010-15:01
Hi, Let's say yes.We won't decide anyway, it's just for thinking. "A question of youth-oriented would lead one to get something like AP or JLC. At least with JLC, you'll get a great movement with a robust case in a large case, and it can be had new for un... 

Young vs old. Formal vs casual.

 
 By: Le Chef : September 27th, 2010-15:34
I love both the Calatrava and the Nautilus and think they fulfill different roles: the Nautilus is more casual and the Calatrava more formal. To make the Calatrava more casual and informal seems to go against the grain of what it stands for. I also think ... 

Patek 5107G

 
 By: fabios : September 28th, 2010-11:04
I find my 5107G a watch that can be formal or casual.....  

Yes, but classic! nt

 
 By: Dje : September 28th, 2010-15:05
nt

Patek already made the perfect young person watch

 
 By: tourbillon001 : October 2nd, 2010-13:06
but it has been discontinued. It was a 5085. It was very casual, complicated and for most of its life it was less than 20k. Its a steel in the secondary market in my opinion. I was dumb enough to sell mine for less than 12k

"young blood" chiming in

 
 By: mbeech1 : February 23rd, 2011-00:55
Hey there, I am 19 years old, so I thought I would chime in. I actually rather like the Calatrava, especially the 5196. I think the 5196 conveys a sense of modernism while still being quite classical in composure. However, I first became enamored with Pat... 

yes

 
 By: PP_Geneve : February 23rd, 2011-08:42
i consider myself "pretty young" too i just recently acquired the 5196 and -while i'm daily soaked in divine exctasy by that watch- i also pretty much feel that the golden ellipse 3738 will be my next indulgence.

AQUANAUT

 
 By: chris22nyc : July 26th, 2011-17:34
5167r is a amazing watch for younger people

Sure, would work.

 
 By: Crmsnraider : July 26th, 2011-20:07
Many interesting responses. Many reasons as to why one thing could be and/or why another could not ( for example young adults' monetary situations, taste levels, style). From my experiences combined with personal opinion the Nautilus is the go to pickup o... 

A too simple answer?

 
 By: masterspiece : July 27th, 2011-00:30
An entry level piece for the young? Aside from what's been said, perhaps a 5296G, 2-tone silvery-gray dial? Simple. Sporty. Youthful. Affordable. Aloha, Bob

For guys in their 20's

 
 By: tenaille.developpement : August 30th, 2016-00:43
I think PP has already answered their needs, 5167 and 5711 for not too expensive pieces which can be worn with suit or shorts, George Soros wears a SS 5167. Now Calatravas are dress watches, some very old school and classical, others a little more modern ...