Part II - Quiet & discrete, watchmakers are known for this

Sep 20, 2013,10:38 AM
 

“Dial makers” are not that different - if not even “worse”. Even long time insiders from the industry don´t know that much about their “secrets” - much less than about movements.


It is probably not a big surprise that the atmosphere at Cadran Flückiger is quite special. There are high-tech machines and highly efficient processes, painstaking handwork by artisans/artists in separated rooms, custom-made “old school” machines for the guillocheur … and it seems some kind of miracles on top. Are there warlocks? No, but there are (quite often) hundreds of different steps/processes before you get the perfect dial and maybe that´s why nobody from outside will ever get the full picture. I only spent about two hours in that place and I am far from being an expert now, but I have seen enough to be impressed – even more now.


Today there are about 100 people working at Cadran Flückiger and they produce approximately 120.000 dials per year. The amount of dials gives a hint that they still produce dials for other companies as well, because PP doesn´t need that much dials. It was like this before and they try to keep it like this. On the other side not all dials needed for watches from Patek Philippe are produced in-house, but they could do so – today. The latter was important for Patek Philippe, but also it was important for them to stay in business with approved suppliers.


In my report I won´t give you the processes step by step, because I would fail to do so after just a few hours visit (as already mentioned above). What I will try to do is to share some impressions and maybe to get your attention to even more details …

 

Side note : I don´t know about you all, but I am an admirer of (even tiniest) details and different shades of beauty. Therefore I would recommend you to observe the face of watches (in general) more carefully. Since a few years some watch companies improved their business case at the expense of “the face”.

It makes a huge difference if you pay about 160,- … 60,- or just 6,- Euros for the hands of each watch, to the supplier and charge your retail customer the full price or even more. Shareholder value, you know. Example, only!


Who needs hundreds of different, tricky and sophisticated steps/processes, if you just can change the design instead? Just keep it simple. Who needs such (minor!?) parts made in Switzerland - only? … Only PuristS?


My guess is quite a lot customers (of today) just pay for the style and the brand – only, more or less. Well, some former serious watch companies became (almost) marketing agencies and they do well at the moment. Former values of general watchmaking don´t count that much anymore, at least not to all. In-house movements is just one part of the story, isn´t it?

Sorry for the digression, but sometimes you need the comparison to understand the real value shown.

 

Impressions from the factory :





At some places there have been boards with information outside the workshops. Those don´t give you all the tiny details, but at least they help to get an overview and some minimum of knowledge about the topic shown.





































There are just so many different dials (for Patek Philippe and other customers) and even when most of them start like the same it feels like they all ask for a different treatment. For the first steps they use very modern machines, like common in the industry. Afterwards the dials start their journey through the different departments or better to say different hands of craftsmen. The logistic part itself could be mentioned as a kind of “complication”, because I can imagine it is not that easy to track them all and to make sure the quality and delivery in time. Depending on the dial needed, each logistic path can be different. A complete documentation of each step is indispensable to deliver high quality in time.

 

The galvanic-plating workshop, where surfaces are coated with a layer of metal by electrodepositing:























Another kind of surface finish happens just next door.





















The “white powder” has to be chosen carefully and there can be minor differences each time you choose it. The brightest one looks almost like icing sugar, but of course it is not and something more special needed for the finish of a dial.





















Everything looks easy and magic at the same time. The results have been stunning without doubt.





So many different machines and tools, so many different steps, so many different people working at the same time … just difficult to track and to understand everything. I had a patient guide and the staff gave me lots of answers besides doing their daily business. I know a lot more than before, at least I know that I have no idea how to do it myself and my respect has grown a lot. Even a simple dial is far from being simple when it comes with a Patek Philippe.

 

More impressions :



































































Let´s make tiny frames, numbers and indexes … in gold - only, of course.
































































Varnishing and printing happens just next door and it looks very sophisticated, almost like the production of microchips in an industry dust-free room. In fact I guess they are even pickier at Cadrans Flückiger. Before they start the varnishing or lacquering of the dial, the place has to be cleaned with almost forensic intensity and it takes about 20 minutes – each time.





























































It looks so simple and clean, looking at the final product. Absolutely no flaws will be accepted and customers like us have good loupes and macro cameras - today smile

 

Once we have the numbers, indexes or frames, the job is not done …





































































Each step needs special attention and has to be done with care.


Something not to forget is the guilloche department, because they are in charge for some kind of outstanding dials highly appreciated by the connoisseurs. The skills needed are very special and rare. The technic is quite old and maybe some of the machines needed as well, but even more special are the new wooden “tables”. A master cabinet maker from the valley got the order to produce them. He had the skills and the wood, but he couldn´t believe that today someone is asking for that kind of quality and is willing to pay for the effort needed. Well exceptional work needs exceptional tools and therefore money was not limited to get them. Order was fixed. He was more than happy to be allowed to produce the first one as a pilot and even happier when he got the order for two more.













The result speaks for itself.





















It´s not only impressive from the front …





… even when the back doesn´t show guilloche.


There is no big noise when the machines are working …











… no matter if it is a modern or an “old” one. It feels almost like a "Zen" production, somehow.













One could say it is like copy and paste, but believe me it is not that easy – not at all.





That´s it for now and I know there are still lots of secrets, details to show and stories to tell. My goal was not to take away the mysteries of the dial production, but to get more attention on that very important part of any watch – the face.


Lots of effort just for the beauty of a watch, isn´t it?

Well, at the end the tiny details make the big difference – at least for the connoisseur.



I hope you liked my report as much as I enjoyed my trip.


Thanks to Patek Philippe for making it happen and special thanks to my guide. He is a real gentleman and his knowledge is exceptional. It was a real pleasure at any time.

Oliver


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Comments: view entire thread

 

Dials & more … THE face of any watch

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 20th, 2013-09:53
“After observing many Pateks, XYs and a lot others, I believe that Patek makes the best numerals (both in style and quality) and hands. The rich selection of different hands and numeral styles in different materials is really a big asset for Patek. For me...  

Part I - … the face of a watch

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 20th, 2013-10:01
How many different dials/faces do we have in the current collection? A brief overview : That´s still not all, but I decided to stop here - promised :-) I didn´t count them all, but the total amount seems to be impressive. Not to mention the different deta...  

Your post is a milestone...

 
 By: moc : September 28th, 2013-06:42
Wow,this is what Patek is all about,and these are posts that a non-patek fanatic like myself would like to read,in order to understand what is so special about the brand,apart from the value of its timepieces. I must admit that my mind is way more open no... 

Mo my friend, you are too kind and now we have ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 30th, 2013-00:16
several more "details" to discuss when we meet next time :-) Ciao, Oliver

Part II - Quiet & discrete, watchmakers are known for this

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 20th, 2013-10:38
“Dial makers” are not that different - if not even “worse”. Even long time insiders from the industry don´t know that much about their “secrets” - much less than about movements. It is probably not a big surprise that the atmosphere at Cadran Flückiger is...  

What a post!

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : September 20th, 2013-11:05
I started it two hours ago...and OK i was distracted by a glass of wine or two, but just finished. What a superb and through treatment of the subject. As you probably know, dials are central to me. In Rolex world, it works for me..... dial, history/case, ... 

Thanks Oliver for a great report !!

 
 By: GLau : September 20th, 2013-11:25
As your report has shown, the amount of work and efforts that go into the "face" of a watch are just amazing. So many steps and such attention to details. Since Cadrans supplies to others, by going through the factory, were you able to get a sense of whic... 

Gordon, thanks for your kind reply ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:36
and I can´t tell you anything about the other companies. PP tried very hard not to show me those :-) Oliver

Joe, thanks for your kind reply and I see ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:34
lots of topics for further discussions. Would love to learn from you and to discuss with you in detail. Just an example. Do Rolex dials have to "age in grace" to be adorable? How much time do they need to be addictive? The new ones are less beautiful or j... 

Vintage Rolex is ...

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : September 23rd, 2013-03:04
..... a long and winding road!! What some see as beautiful, others see as ugly. What some see as interesting, others see as a problem. Take spider dials..... they split vintage collectors in two. Yep...an issue to discuss over a bottle or so and a full ev... 

Nothing much to say about such a great report, Oliver, but I’m sure…

 
 By: marcelo : September 20th, 2013-12:04
…I’d have enjoyed a trip to Switzerland and a visit to Patek Phlippe better. ;) About the tiny details making a BIG difference for the connoisseur, I could not agree more. :) Best!

Marcello, to have more pleasure than I had?

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:37
Hard to believe :-) Thanks, for your kind reply! Oliver

No, Oliver.

 
 By: marcelo : September 23rd, 2013-07:15
Just what you had. ;) Best! Marcelo

My oh my!

 
 By: Ares501 - Mr Green : September 20th, 2013-13:00
What a post! One of best intros in report ..ever.. to just sit back and enjoy reading. You are true Purist and Connoisseur dear Oliver Indeed if movement is heart of watch dial is it's soul. What best movement perfectly executed and finished can do if dia... 

D, I just try to do it with passion ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:39
and by heart :-) Thanks, my friend! Oliver

A wonderful trip

 
 By: Spellbound : September 20th, 2013-16:18
Thanks Oliver for a great read, and more a journey into the world of dial making. You did actually take away some of the mysteries of dial making, and for that I am thankful. I would love to see a similar report from other manufactures to compare. A wonde... 

Dean, such kind of reports/visits I would love as well.

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:40
If only we could get an invitation, secrets you know :-) Thanks a lot, Dean! Oliver

You killed many of us...

 
 By: Fricks : September 20th, 2013-16:44
... i am sure with that thread :) And the final fatal blow to end with the 5550P... I took the process backwards, i saw myself selling all my watches to buy mainly Patek, wondering what they had so special, i went into the details... Discovering a whole n... 

Guilty!

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:42
"You killed many of us ..." With pleasure :-) Fricks, thanks! Oliver

Thank you Oliver

 
 By: Dje : September 21st, 2013-03:33
Thank you Oliver for this great report. I totally share your starting points about current trends in horology unfortunately. Dials are totally essential for the lasting pleasure of owning a fine watch. Dials are what we look at most of the time. The FHH s... 

"current trends"

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:45
Trends come and go, but we the customers have to support the good ones and to avoid the bad ones. No one would follow a bad trend if he can´t sell the product ... 5711, Jerome one is still waiting for you - no matter how long it will take :-) Thanks a lot... 

Fantastic read and pics.!

 
 By: fernando : September 22nd, 2013-02:00
I will never look at a dial the same way again! Thanks for sharing all this with us. :) Best fernando

"I will never look at a dial the same way again!"

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:47
Such a statement from someone experienced like you Fernando?! Thanks!! Best, Oliver

incredible

 
 By: Bruno.M1 : September 23rd, 2013-11:03
This year I visited Métalem, anonther dial maker, you have to see it to understand al the work they put in a dial Most of us keep talking about the movement but after my dial manufacture vists I can say making a perfect dial is art

Wonderful report!

 
 By: social : September 25th, 2013-01:37
Many talks are about caliber but only a few are about dials! Thank you!

Great post!

 
 By: patrick_y : September 25th, 2013-09:02
Fantastic post Oliver! Thank you for showing us the dial making experience!

Great work

 
 By: Mark in Paris : October 17th, 2013-08:35
Thanks a lot Oliver, I just noticed I missed to read this thread. It was very interesting. I noticed too that the moonphase dials looked so sad when they weren't yet finished: we never think of what they go through during the process! Poor little lonely d...  

"we never think of what they go through during the process!"

 
 By: small-luxury-world : October 21st, 2013-04:36
Mark, you made my day :-) Thanks! Oliver

A truly splendid report, Oliver!

 
 By: Gary G : October 29th, 2013-22:50
Great stuff indeed -- many thanks for sharing this visit that the rest of us will likely never enjoy! Wonderful details, great photos -- truly a classic post. Another example of why those "watch journalists" who lack passion for their subject matter will ... 

Indeed, passion is the key ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : October 30th, 2013-11:48
and the main difference. Thanks a lot Gary, much appreciated! Cordially, Oliver

Nothing I can say but wow, thank you. Fabulous post

 
 By: doubleup : September 20th, 2013-13:23
Those who ask why are these so expensive. Just look at this, just the dial production... I did not know they made their own numbers. Really want one one day.

doubleup, one day ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:52
you will get yours - for sure. Thanks, for your kind reply! Oliver

couldn't agree more...

 
 By: Fricks : September 20th, 2013-16:23
.... with that fellow purist. Thanks for the nice post. I agree, i think that the great dials is what dragged me to Patek. You know those dials that smiles back at you, that change mood according to the moment of the day, the light, the surrounding. Its n... 

"those dials that smiles back at you"

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:53
I like that idea :-) Oliver

Fantastic report!

 
 By: Dmitriy : September 21st, 2013-02:26

Thanks a lot, my dear friend!

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:55
Oliver

Amazing report !!!!

 
 By: Georg : September 21st, 2013-02:45
Thank you very much!!! Brilliant photos, too. Best regards Georg

Dial is what makes a watch.

 
 By: Iceman : September 21st, 2013-04:41
Ok, movement too :-))). But 90% of watch buyers are attracted by the face of a watch. Thats why Dials are so so important imho. Everytime i look at my 5070p blue dial and compare it to my " other brand" . I know for a fact that no one is even close to mas... 

Iceman, my pleasure ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:58
and I would not mind to look at the blue dial of your 5070P - for hours :-) Oliver

same feeling here about the 5070P...

 
 By: Fricks : September 24th, 2013-14:03
... 1st thing that comes to my mind, is that 5070P sends all the others watches home :)

Georg, thanks ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:57
and I guess we will meet soon ... Herzlichen Gruß, Oliver

Thank you Oliver,

 
 By: dr.kol : September 21st, 2013-07:26
For a lovely post. Kari

Kari, my pleasure!

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 23rd, 2013-02:59
Oliver

Fabulous report Oliver! [nt]

 
 By: AnthonyTsai : September 23rd, 2013-17:08

Anthony, thanks!

 
 By: small-luxury-world : September 30th, 2013-00:16
.

Great report

 
 By: ED209 : September 30th, 2013-18:26
Excellent report Oliver, thanks sharing all the photos of the dial making process. Regards, ED-209

Ed, my pleasure.

 
 By: small-luxury-world : October 9th, 2013-10:18
Cheers, Oliver

The most fantasic post SLW

 
 By: -RWK- : August 18th, 2014-20:58
I really enjoyed this...Thanks for all your good work here! -- Richard.

Richard, thanks a lot ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : August 19th, 2014-07:22
for your kind reply! Oliver