Yes and No... Okay, I'll play "Pretend Doctor"

Apr 23, 2015,12:12 PM
 

PuristSPro is not about money and we try to talk about price as little as possible as it detracts from the collector's experience.  On the other hand, FORBES is all about money money money.  So I approach this with a balance of collector mentality and yet advisory mentality. 

Please note, I'm not a Financial Planner.  So no liability here on what is stated. 

Wayne Carini is exactly right.  Buy vintage Volvos, especially the P1800.  Sell vintage Mercedes.  I would even say consider selling air-cooled Porsche 911s (they're close to the peak now).  Sell vintage Mercedes-Benz vehicles except 300 Gullwings, hold onto those.  These will increase in prevalence as MBZ, Tesla, BMW, and Lamborghini create more cars with doors that go up. 

I would add...  Buy vintage BMWs (values are skyrocketing).  And I think it's a good idea to even start buying vintage Audis (the original old QUATTRO cars are historically significant).  However, note there aren't many vintage Audis and they don't seem to last very long reliability-wise, also the Audi demographic is not into vintage cars the way BMW and Mercedes-Benz demographic so this is hard to say... 

Judith Miller is right, vintage Japanese, Chinese, Korean, and even vintage European porcelains as a whole are increasing in prevalence.  The European stuff (Meissen etc.) not so much as the Oriental stuff.  Modern European pieces are going down in value.  That mid-century modern furniture is at a high right now and prices will stop increasing or increase very slowly from here on out.  So it's a good idea to consider selling. 

I would add... silver teapots and other beautiful silver housewares stuff is going out of production.  Christofle is closing stores, Tiffany & Co. is going to cut production; this stuff is going to become extinct.  If you like silver candlesticks, tea services, etc. this will be the last chance to buy new.  They'll eventually hit auction where you can buy them very reasonably priced too.  That Tiffany & Co. dragon fly tea service is nice.  American interpretation of Chinese-Japanese tea pots in Western sizes.  A wonderfully odd clash of Westernized interpretation of Oriental stuff. 

Robert Parker is right on the money here with the wine.  The 2010 Southern Rhone wines, especially from Chateneauf du Pape tasted really young back when they were released, but they have aged OH SO NICELY and they're still reasonably priced.  So if you can get 2010 and 2007, get it.  Mine have been aging nicely.  In fact, I had a case of one of the Chateneauf du Papes and I've enjoyed seeing it age so nicely in just a 3-4 years that I'm down to my last bottle. 

I would add...  Go for more 2007s, especially Californian 2007s.  The 2007 Californian wines seem to be very good, perfect weather that produced great wine.  It will be a year long remembered in your cellar.  And they're still affordable and for sale at major retail outlets. 

John Reardon is more or less on the money here if you're talking about a very short-term outlook. 

I would add...  From a long-term financial perspective sell sell sell!  Vintage Rolexes are still going up but may start plateauing any month now.  The only thing I would buy is vintage Langes.  The Great Lange watches before Lange started making these crazy thick ostentatious pieces, such as the original Tourbillon Pour Le Merite, the original Lange 1 Tourbillon, Turbograph, the 1815 Moonphase, Langematik Anniversary with enamel dial and red XII, the Richard Lange PLM, up till the Richard Lange Tourbillon PLM.  Every super esoteric piece from the Lange 1 Tourbillon Perpetual Calendar and after has been very pretentious, too thick, rushed execution, etc.  The Lange with the star chart on the back screams neavou riche, superficial tastes, and isn't half as nice as the Patek Philippe Celestial.  Lange is expanding its factory too, so don't be surprised if it becomes more mainstream. 


More posts: 911AudiBMWLamborghiniLange 1Lange 1 Tourbillon Perpetual CalendarLangematikLangematik AnniversaryMercedes-BenzP 1800PorscheRichard LangeRichard Lange TourbillonTeslaVolvo

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Is Forbes right?

 
 By: amanico : April 20th, 2015-03:53
They give some advices on cars, furnitures, wines and... watches. Look at this one: The two " stars " are the Volvo P 1800 and the Patek 175Th Anniversary, especially the Chronograph. I have some doubts when I read that the P 1800 will soon reach 100 000 ...  

Well i think patek watches hold there value.

 
 By: geross : April 20th, 2015-04:34
But the price of pleasure wearing a patek & owning one is most often priceless. Whether complicated or simple its great to own. Image wise it tells a lot about the owner. That he is lover of fine things , toys etc. my opinion. Best! Geross

mmmh, I would not support his opinion personally

 
 By: Mark in Paris : April 20th, 2015-06:43
What can make someone pick this one vs another ? There are many references which would perfectly answer to the question of THE watch to buy. I guess it was a fun exercize for his article and it was quite an easy choice to make a selection out of the 175th... 

I good sign for sure ;) [nt]

 
 By: Mark in Paris : April 20th, 2015-07:11

May be right about the Patek but most likely very wrong on the Volvo

 
 By: KMII : April 20th, 2015-07:36
As much as I like the P1800, especially in the 3 door wagon ES guise, they are sadly way too common and not nearly exotic enough to get close to the price envisaged. Even though they are amongst the most collectable Volvos, they have relatively humdrum un... 

I was indeed talking exclusively about the watch

 
 By: Mark in Paris : April 20th, 2015-07:38
The Volvo is indeed a very nice collection car. Cheers, Mark

Finding one in very good shape makes the rarity, though.

 
 By: amanico : April 20th, 2015-07:41
Ten years ago, I was tempted to jum on one, when they were around 5 K Euros. I got one two years and a half ago, and paid it much more. Nowadays, they go for an even higher price. But to say that they will soon reach 100 000 USD, well, there is still a wo... 

Yes the article is correct

 
 By: emcquillan : April 20th, 2015-08:27
I have to be more patient and stop drinking my 2005 Bordeaux! I don't know about the rest though :)

Not sure about that car!!!

 
 By: Miranda : April 20th, 2015-13:34
lol kidding of course Looks like you have a winning combo 5110 and 1800 Both P Ofcourse! Best Miranda

Interesting advice

 
 By: Bill : April 20th, 2015-20:05
On the price of a P1800. If he is talking about a fully restored car disassembled down to the frame and rebuilt ground up restoration I a sure 100k is reasonable as the restoration would most like cost 50k. Great car. Bill

I am pretty sure that the Saint's own P 1800 can fetch that price.

 
 By: amanico : April 20th, 2015-22:33
For the moment, a very nice P 1800 is more circa 40 K is interestingly the double than the price, three years ago. Best, Nicolas

I can say in general

 
 By: Bill : April 20th, 2015-23:07
The money you would spend to restore the car to its original like new conditions would be much more than any buyer would pay. But I know you are all about the pleasure and like watches these are not investments but objects to cherish and enjoy. Bill

Yes, when you spend money to restaure your car, don't expect the buyer to pay the price

 
 By: amanico : April 20th, 2015-23:14
You paid... I mean: You pay 20 K Euros for a nice P 1800. So pay 20 K Euros to restore it, you will sell it around 30 K Euros. BUT that is, from my point of view, not that important. The pleasure to drive it flawlessly is priceless. The pleasure the car w... 

And there you have it, in a nutshell

 
 By: KMII : April 20th, 2015-23:25
I think you described the situation very well - as long as there is little potential for the resale value of an oldtimer to more or less compensate for the investment lavished on it, the market will remain cautious. And the main elements that drive values... 

Yes, smile on the face is priceless. The funny thing with the P 1800 is

 
 By: amanico : April 21st, 2015-01:20
That almost each week someone comes to me to ask me if it is for sale. And the funnier thing is that my perpetual answer is... No, thanks. ;) Pleasure is the best of investments. 850 T5 R, the " brick "? That is a really cool car! Best, Nicolas

The very same...

 
 By: KMII : April 21st, 2015-02:32
Yes, the brick. In a European context in the rarest combination, namely black, not yellow, and a sedan, not an estate - I suppose the US would possibly have other combinations. One of only 2500 in total - in this combo it was the only one in the country, ... 

Yes and No... Okay, I'll play "Pretend Doctor"

 
 By: patrick_y : April 23rd, 2015-12:12
PuristSPro is not about money and we try to talk about price as little as possible as it detracts from the collector's experience. On the other hand, FORBES is all about money money money. So I approach this with a balance of collector mentality and yet a... 

I was quite amused by the predictions especially on the P 1800.

 
 By: amanico : April 24th, 2015-23:21
Reaching the 100, 000 USD soon is not very realistic. Now, if we are speaking about quite long term, maybe 10 years, then... The car is quite rare. I see much more vintage Porsches than P 1800s on the road and in the Streets, and most of them are not in g... 

You're right on the P1800. Of course I default to you on that one...

 
 By: patrick_y : April 26th, 2015-11:54
Of course I default to your expertise with the P1800. But don't be surprised if it goes up in value greater and sooner than you thought. Look at vintage air cooled Porsches, many 993s doubled in the past 3 years in the United States and have become very v... 

In the 30 last months, it went up in a quite impressive way.

 
 By: amanico : April 26th, 2015-12:20
Count around 30 / 40 K Euros for a very nice one. But 100 000? That's another story. Best my friend. Nicolas

Nix the P1800

 
 By: Donedwarddillon : April 26th, 2015-18:09
I actually owned a P1800 station wagon. Very cool looking car but it was a nightmare keeping it running. Finally sold it to a guy who loves tinkering with old Volvos. Sorry Forbes, think you got this one wrong.

You first have to be sure to have a good mechanician.

 
 By: amanico : April 26th, 2015-23:25
It is pretty reliable, though. Dépends on the condition. Mine didn't drive a lot, before I got it... The first 10 K Kilometers, I tested the different issues. Since then at the exception of the clutch which was not changed for 20 years ( ! ), no issues, j...