The modernity and coolness of meaningless

Mar 24, 2015,16:44 PM
 

I think the modernity lays on the fact that Patek is trying something new.  If I compare this novelty with my calatrava 5127 there are many differences. The classic look of the 5127 is lovely and gorgeous but...very understated. It is not a big conversion piece and for modern I simply mean something new, unexpected and surprising.

Uhm...so...every ugly strange fuzzy thing they eventually could do will be "modern" just because it's "unexpected and surprising".
If i go mad and start running out naked in the streets i could be considered a modern guy! smile
Or we could consider as "modern" Snoop Dog wearing a golden tube and smoking.

True that the lines are a bit retro but we have a modern movement and a modern complication. The fact that this is also a calatrava is very intriguing and innovative for the line.  I am not sure if the model is really related to the 20-30's as it bears no similarity to the previous patek pilot watch. I think it is a modern re-interpretation. We don't have a manual movement and the dual time zone is certainly not something you would see in a vintage watch. 

Taking apart the fact in this "pilot" watch there is just the name of a Calatrava (and pilot watch too) and nothing more, taking apart the fact there is no other Patek pilot watch with the exception of a prototype stored somewhere in their museum, taking apart the fact that you wouldn't see the same complication on a vintage pilot (a truly one) because it is completely useless and meaningless (on a true military pilot watch), "reinterpretation" of what? What are you writing about? This is just a copy of a Zenith pilot watch with the same "complication" and aesthetic, which is "modern" just for the lack in value, the meaningless use of precious metal where should be robust steel, the meaningless use of a certain complication on a kind of watch nothing has to share with it, and the insane price. Which are things pretty common in the "modern" watch production of many companies, so "modern" by definition.

This is certainly new and fresh. 

New for Patek, not for the world of horology at all from any point of view.
Fresh, maybe, still depends on the outside temperature....specially if you take the arm outside of your WWI stucka while "piloting" it. smile

Patek is or tries to be forever and is not really interested in fashion models yet it received a lot of critics for trying something new.  

Patek receives critics when it does ugly things, not "new" ones (which they don't, less or more, since 70 yrs ago). And they're very interested in fashion and trends, as shows for instance the general enlargement of their cases, the new sporty and casual variations of traditional and classy reference or new lines of product, and many other details.
I can do a long list of examples if you want.

Why are pilot watches so interesting to some? Well I think it has all to do with buying into a lifestyle/dream than anything else. Dive watches are similar. How many owners of a diving watch would ever venture outside their swimming pool ? smile 

Yes, but i have some kind of doubt thinking about a Patek "purist" interested in pilot watches made by Patek, maybe i'm wrong, but i know a lot of pilot watches collectors and i'm sure the last brand they were interested for such kind of watches is the Patek Philippe one, even less in white gold with a dual time function (as a Panerai or Rolex purist is not interested in complications of any kind, for instance). 
I guess This watch is not intended for someone interested in "pilot" watches but for who simply is looking for a PP with a different, less traditional and less classic look, whatever is the result but just the brand on the dial (and the theoretical potential overvaluation in the future as the first of a kind). 

The 5224G combines classic lines with the cool factor.

If the "cool factor" was related to the brand even the ugliest watches from this company should have "combine" this, we know that hasn't happened and there are a lot of classic PP's which are not considered "cool" at all.
On the other hand, if it is not the brand which does the miracle of "cooling" such a ugly thing, but the look of the watch itself, the zenith too should be considered "cool", but we know nobody consider it so, and many neither know it.

I don't know if this watch will like to many or few, who will ever like it, if it will be "cool" or "cold", what i know is that it's not new, modern, original or whatever you want to define it, it's just another controversial Patek Philippe like many others of this age.
The point here (again) is not if you or me or any other likes this watch or not (who cares?), the point is you often confuse your personal taste (which is out of discussion) with objective reality and then you are inclined to "explain" it with debatable arguments passing off them as factual datas where they are, at least, your personal belief you use to "explain" your tastes.
Tastes are tastes and cannot be explained, facts are facts and cannot be distorted to explain our own tastes. smile

I don't want to appear rude or unkind, neither i want to transform a light discussion about watches in a sort of perpetual fight between me and you, i'm just trying (maybe resulting unpleasant or annoying, i beg your pardon in that case...) to make you understand that talking about horology is not the same thing as talking about jewellery or any other vague argument like fresh, cool, statement, and so on, and that talking about these vague stuff trying to "force" arguments which have not any basis or any relationship with horology it's completely pointless if not a commercial spot on what we like.
If i want read official printed marketing stuff and related hypes i don't come on an horology forum, i go straight forward to the institutional sites of the companies.
I believe the value of a forum is in the knowledge of "how" and "what", so if you write debatable assertion it's pretty obvious you will have replies and not just "yeah" and "right" smile

Peace, love and Regards


More posts: 5127calatravacomplications

  login to reply

Comments: view entire thread

 

Live from Basel - Why the Patek 5524G the #1 this year

 
 By: christianch : March 22nd, 2015-11:03
Apologizes in advance for the mediocrity of my photos - unfortunately the lighting in the patek booth in Basel was not ideal but I still wanted to give you a glimpse of the 5224G. much has been said about this strange new watch from patek - are the catalo...  
login to reply

Too bad the cal 324 is too small...

 
 By: drphileasfogg : March 22nd, 2015-11:17
Best ...  
login to reply

true but..

 
 By: christianch : March 22nd, 2015-11:32
Patek has always been a bit guilty of casing small movements in bigger watches. This seems to be the case too (thanks for the better photo) but still this was such a daring move. This watch is so modern and contemporary. Glad to see Patek trying something... 
login to reply

Is it?

 
 By: small-luxury-world : March 24th, 2015-01:43
In my books, it still works. But as always, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Oliver ...  
login to reply

You left beautiful pics in every threads...

 
 By: Mark in Paris : March 24th, 2015-03:02
it is like looking for eggs during easter eggs :p Cheers, Mark
login to reply

"easter eggs" You want me to say ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : March 24th, 2015-03:18
I am too early/fast? :-) Cheers, Oliver
login to reply

Lol of course not :p [nt]

 
 By: Mark in Paris : March 24th, 2015-04:18
login to reply

beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

 
 By: ciaca : March 24th, 2015-17:40
...as proportions are a factual data. And it is pretty clear the 324 is small if related to the size of the case. The fact itself could be irrelevant, as irrelevant is on many other famous tool watches and pilot ones too, if this was a true "pilot watch",... 
login to reply

Is the movement too small or the case too big? [nt]

 
 By: amanico : March 24th, 2015-02:04
login to reply

On my wrist ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : March 24th, 2015-02:10
the case is just perfect and I am fine with the size of the movement. The latter is not perfect (regarding size), but imagine what the price tag would be with a completely new (slightly) bigger movement ... ;-) Cheers, Oliver
login to reply

The first you wrote...

 
 By: ciaca : March 24th, 2015-17:43
...if you consider this watch as a "pilot" watch the case could be considered even a little "small", looking at the tradition and usage of this particular kind of "tools". Which is another thing makes it not a "true" pilot watch. :-) Regards
login to reply

What I meant is that the case was too big for the movement, and the movement too small for

 
 By: amanico : March 24th, 2015-21:43
The case. The proportion between both is not very appealing, and a solid case back would have been better. I have hard time considering this one as a pilot Watch, still. Best, Nicolas
login to reply

Have you ever seen a small pilot watch?

 
 By: dsgalaxy1 : March 22nd, 2015-14:04
This is the same movement used for the aquanaut and nautilus, so nothing special in term of finishing. Only the market will tell if it's has been a wise choice, IMHO it's look like an awful fake PP watch, but we know it's real
login to reply

case finish typical patek..if we compare it to..

 
 By: christianch : March 22nd, 2015-15:34
Any other pilot I have seen. The IWC heritage pilot was also in white gold (I own one) and platinum but the case shape is very different than the patek one. Even less the zenith that has a much bigger case and lacks the elegance of this calatrava. I under... 
login to reply

Of course that depends HOW

 
 By: Jester : March 24th, 2015-00:26
you define a pilot watch but as far as I can see, many brands produced 40-44mm case size watches of which they termed 'pilot' watches, including one of the more successful ones like IWC.
login to reply

A lot of...

 
 By: ciaca : March 24th, 2015-18:03
"True" pilot watches, in other words those were used for this kind of purpose, had bigger cases and bigger crowns for reasons is pretty easy to understand. Passing the time these watches loose their original function, and like many other kinds of tool wat... 
login to reply

nobody cares about your "serious doubts" [nt]

 
 By: christianch : March 24th, 2015-18:05
login to reply

Exactly the point...

 
 By: Jester : March 24th, 2015-18:57
I don't see Patek claiming the 5524 to be any more 'pilot' than say an IWC. In fact, with a WG case I think Patek is trying to send the signal that this is NOT your real pilot watch, but rather a pilot 'themed' piece. Frankly I don't see any problem with ... 
login to reply

Neither i...

 
 By: ciaca : March 24th, 2015-19:32
See any "problem" Other than that a "pilot theme" watch has nothing related to the history and tradition of this company as it has instead with the IWC's one. Now, history and tradition are the basis of the whole poetic narrative printed every day by the ... 
login to reply

if you go for pilot watches?

 
 By: geross : March 22nd, 2015-14:39
pilot watches are made to be big cause a pilot has gloves , usually the crown would be big so time can adjusted with gloves. i like pilot watches , have 2 one 41 mm. & one with a huge 45mm with a unitas manual wind movement. this one is replica of wha... 
login to reply

indeed as a pilot watch ...

 
 By: christianch : March 22nd, 2015-15:36
is unusual in some regards: white gold and price :) I think that in person is much more impressive than on the press kit. I hope that I will be able to get one. It might be very popular and It think that production might be scarce. I hope that it won't be... 
login to reply

Love

 
 By: el1125 : March 22nd, 2015-18:55
The idea and execution. As I don't own currently a Pilot watch (most are too large) but do own many other Pateks, this one will be a top seller!
login to reply

Thanks for sharing these pics and thoughts Christian [nt]

 
 By: Mark in Paris : March 22nd, 2015-14:59
login to reply

you are very welcome :) [nt]

 
 By: christianch : March 22nd, 2015-15:37
login to reply

I could have bet...

 
 By: ciaca : March 23rd, 2015-16:54
This post was from some platinum bracelet enthusiast. Then at the end of the article i read your nickname.....and i won the bet with myself! (Kidding...but not too much ) They will hit the target with this (embarrassing in my personal opinion) watch if th... 
login to reply

your are wrong again :) but..

 
 By: christianch : March 23rd, 2015-23:08
I suspect that your know it but just enjoy the debate :) Okay in this case at least we don't have to discuss the horological validity of Patek :) If you check the movement it is the same dual time used on the aquanaut and nautilus dual time in steel. With... 
login to reply

I know...

 
 By: ciaca : March 24th, 2015-14:46
You're not familiar with complications and other technical details, as you stated several times, but even who declares to be not interested in horological stuff but in platinum bracelets should know there's a huge difference between a dual time and a chro... 
login to reply

please get over it ..why are you so bitter about...

 
 By: christianch : March 24th, 2015-15:05
the fact that I own a Rolex DD platinum with diamond dial ? You don't like it but please drop the "platinum bracelet" thing that is just silly. if you are the expert that you claim to be remember that the DD is only in gold on platinum. I like the platinu... 
login to reply

I'm not bitter...

 
 By: ciaca : March 24th, 2015-17:05
About the fact you own your beautiful platinum day date, but the fact you affirm firmly and convinced it is an "high end" watch and that there isn't nothing better in its own category, which sounds, in my personal view of horology (and i guess not just mi... 
login to reply

yes you are .....

 
 By: christianch : March 24th, 2015-17:10
Everything you post (on every forum) is negative and about how better you feel about yourself and your choices. I didn't see your watches and I wouldn't care about your -- obviously poor - taste. Keep it to yourself and just leave me alone.
login to reply

at least I can pay for what I like without harassing others. [nt]

 
 By: christianch : March 24th, 2015-17:02
login to reply

Me too...

 
 By: ciaca : March 24th, 2015-17:09
But i don't go around telling is the best thing in the world, neither ask if is it the best thing in the world just to read "yes" :-) Regards
login to reply

never said that...if you can't buy what you like is not my fault. [nt]

 
 By: christianch : March 24th, 2015-17:13
login to reply

What you wrote...

 
 By: ciaca : March 24th, 2015-17:19
Is already there were you wrote it. What i can buy i guess doesn't matter and doesn't interest to anyone but me I thought you was a grown adult but reading your last replies i start thinking you aren't...and that explain a lot of your questionable beliefs... 
login to reply

Great report my friend!

 
 By: jrwong23 (aka watchthebin) : March 23rd, 2015-20:15
Your photos are great and I appreciate your event coverage a lot! Thanks for virtually bringing me there Christian! Cheers Robin
login to reply

thank you Robin! :) [nt]

 
 By: christianch : March 23rd, 2015-23:09
login to reply

Let me join ...

 
 By: small-luxury-world : March 24th, 2015-01:03
with a first live picture on the wrist: It was a huge suprise, to say the least ... :-) Thanks for sharing your impressions, Christian! Oliver ...  
login to reply

Wow! It looks much better on your wrist, Oliver

 
 By: EDJA : March 24th, 2015-01:15
Failed to try it on Geneve last week as new collection was not presented yet on Rue de Rohne... My personal picks from 2015 are: Pilot, 5170G black face and 5270 both please:)
login to reply

Pilots and grandfathers

 
 By: Tonypatch : March 24th, 2015-03:28
I wonder why "pilot watches" with styling cues from the 1920-30ies are held in such high regards. Commercial airlines were still quite a novelty, and most of the idolized dare-devil pilots were in the military, shooting down other pilots or carpet-bombing... 
login to reply

good point Tony! Let me try to...

 
 By: christianch : March 24th, 2015-10:56
explain what I meant. First of all thanks for your comments - it was very funny to read about dare-devil pilots :) I think the modernity lays on the fact that Patek is trying something new. If I compare this novelty with my calatrava 5127 there are many d... 
login to reply

The modernity and coolness of meaningless

 
 By: ciaca : March 24th, 2015-16:44
I think the modernity lays on the fact that Patek is trying something new. If I compare this novelty with my calatrava 5127 there are many differences. The classic look of the 5127 is lovely and gorgeous but...very understated. It is not a big conversion ...  
login to reply

not as meaningless as your comments

 
 By: christianch : March 24th, 2015-17:00
As you certainly know you don't need to reply if you don't feel that what I write is meaningful. You also don't need to inject your pearls of wisdom every time I post my views about a watch. Indeed you are being a rude. Your vague "horology" label doesn't... 
login to reply

You expressed you feelings...

 
 By: ciaca : March 24th, 2015-17:07
I expressed my observations to your feelings passed off as factual datas. I don't see the matter :-) Regards
login to reply

stop hijacking my thread/posts - find someone else to bother [nt]

 
 By: christianch : March 24th, 2015-17:12
login to reply

So let's hope that Patek....

 
 By: Tonypatch : March 24th, 2015-23:54
...will issue a special "Dresden" Edition of the 5524? Pilots are cool! Fun fact: my, waitforit: GRANDFATHER was actually killed by a pilot in WWII.
login to reply

70 years Anniversary of our Common Great Victory in WW2 and Pilot Watch

 
 By: EDJA : March 25th, 2015-00:04
Mixed feelings to be honest... I am not sure that Soviet, American or British pilots were wearing Patek Pilot watches... But at the end of the day its only watch... Dont mix it with politic
login to reply

It is not about politics...

 
 By: Tonypatch : March 25th, 2015-00:06
....it is about Pilots! Cool Pilots! Take this, Tommy! Here we go, Dresden. So much fun! YOLO!
login to reply

most likely not a Calatrava

 
 By: watch-er : March 27th, 2015-13:21
I would expect this watch to be a "complication." The fact PP uses similar casing across the line does not make this a Calatrava unless they market it as such. On another note I have preferred this watch to be 40mm. If not 40mm then 45mm. 42mm may fall in... 
login to reply

but they do...

 
 By: christianch : March 27th, 2015-15:30
".. does not make this a Calatrava unless they market it as such." but they do call it a calatrava see : so it is a calatrava :)
login to reply

Thanks for sharing! It looks great on your wrist..

 
 By: christianch : March 24th, 2015-10:40
Great photo - it looks stunning on your wrist. Thanks again for sharing it. Great watch, useful complication and not really comparable to anything else in the pilot watches segment! Can't wait to try it on :) perhaps it will arrive at the end of the summe... 
login to reply

Or, maybe..

 
 By: Tonypatch : March 25th, 2015-00:05
...PP should REALLY be innovative in a Blue Ocean/Clayton Christensen kind of way and start a new trend. Pilot watches are so yesterday, what about army commander watches? A Wehrmacht chrono? The Eichmann special edition rattrapante to remember this legen... 
login to reply

I like your sence of humor...

 
 By: EDJA : March 25th, 2015-00:22
Wermaht chrono? Sure, with proper pictogram on the dial:)
login to reply

A lot of "cool and fresh modernity"....

 
 By: ciaca : March 25th, 2015-08:05
In the next future. I hope i don't witness such all this :-) Regards
login to reply