Patek Philippe

Your observations and remarks have their place here, even if the decision of the founders of Watchprosite wished to remain based on the object only, craftmanship, history, aesthetics, wearing pleasure etc... The aim is to be able to understand watches better, technically, aesthetically, what they bring, what they don't, how original they are, what pleasure or improvement they provide etc... In that way, we don't see it as a commodity but as a pleasure of joy, bringing much more than telling the time. On a personnal side, each of us add the "value" creterion when considering a purchase of course but we wish that this side remains personnal. Of course we can talk a little about it, "I find this one too expensive" etc... but we won't discuss in details of "is it rightly priced", how much rebates etc...

We all have different purchase power, different appreciation of what is expensive or not for a specific watch.

Here are elements that often cause problems in such discussions:

- Underestimation or overestimation of the complexity to build a watch (direct impact on value): include a complication (even the volume of the case is a complication when putting a movement inside), the case shape, the material, the condition in which is it sold, etc...

- The volume sold, especially compared to the level of finishing: selling 10 watches very nicely finished is not the same than doing so for 10 000 pieces.

- Value and pricing should also be looked at considering the demand, the workforce training level etc... but people don't take these elements into account and lead to very hot discussions as we don't talk about the same things.

- Retailers recommandation: how can we judge fairly if a retailer is good or bad from one good or bad experience from a buyer? The rebates are also depending on the local market, the client (good cutomer or 1 shot, this is basic commerce behavior). Thus, nobody can really say the right ammount for each area is 0, 5, 20% ? It depends on the demand of each reference which is different in each country etc...

A bad feedback concerning a seller: is the poster biased, did he do something wrong (something he won't tell in his post of course)? Too much chance to have a biased disccusion without having all the true elements in hands for a fair discussion.

There are, as you already know too much variables to lead to a fair and valuable discussion. Hence, it is better not talking about a subject we can't easily agree on if the goal of the forum is to just talk about pleasure. If you think about cars, we can talk about driving and performances and we can decide not to add the discussions with dealers and rebates. It is not better or worse but just a choice. We don't wish to talk about ALL the variables related to watches but only the ones that vehicules our pleasure wearing, studying them and that are not subject to elements difficult to certify (thus not being sure they are accurate from the start). It is also a way on the forum to discuss with friends sharing the same interest about wearing, studying watches for the craftmanship part of the spectre.

It isn't that nice to have people sometimes just showing that they are going to choose the watch on the base of the rebate they get either (not talking about you of course but this is what we see sometimes and would see more if we decided to open the forum to this subject). We prefer to read about what fuels our passion and why this member chose a specific watch instead of the price he will pay and the fact he thinks he will be able to sell it with a premium. Just a choice.

By the way, if a member wishes to have an info or feedback about a retailer or a price rebate, he can post a question on the forum and ask forumners to reply by Private Message: then, one can get fresh experience as well for its future purchase and decision making process. So still possible!

About the way a company can increase its earnings to develop its products etc... Well, I think that we are on quite a different market than Premium cars. Even, if they have of course many elements in commun, there are significant differences making watches market behave differently: usefulness, luxury market position (Rolls Royce, Ferrari won't have cars from Classe A to Classe S), technical developpement (newer technics/material come today in contradiction with "traditional" watchmaking").

I would like to have more R&D, at elast more improvement in watchmaking but I learned that it may impact the "traditional" craftmanship side of watches that people like a lot as well. It seems to be a "touchy" subject, that can destroy a lot of value if not done properly. Today we see that brands touch to "Silicon" but this is where is stops. There are afew improvements on levers, wheels etc... but no revolutions.

Except in the Independent watchmaking world

About financlial matters, if we had all the elements in hand, it could be nice but this is not possible, epsecially in such a world where discretion and secret is the most cherished characteristic :p

I hope you didn't take it too harsh when we said we usually don't talk about value it is just informing but not a reproach

We want this forum to be a place of friendship and passionate people wishing to discuss about watches mainly as if member of a lounge/club: everybody is welcome, from the member starting from the beginning to the experienced one. I hope you'll find you answers and especially that your purchase experience will be great, whether it is Patek or any other brand.

We are looking forward to reading your future posts

Cheers, Mark

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